Which is the true moment of birth: Placidus and animodar

As we saw in these days with Obama’s oath(s) – the first problem for an astrologer is determining the true  moment of birth, whatever event we are talking about.

Placidus writes some interesting considerations in his Coelestis Philosophia (1650):

Sciendum est primo. Because of the difficulty of choosing the true moment of birth, Ptolemy, from the deepest realities of the nature, inferred  an excellent method for discovering it, based on the planet which has most rights on the  conjunction or opposition of Lights before the birth. In fact this planet, which is the most effective cause, has in itself  the faculty  of determining the angles in a geniture, and I believe, according natural principles.

It is necessary to know, firstly, that stars with the greatest authority and predominating either in the conjunction or in the opposition of the Lights, having the greatest influence in all the  fortnight  path of the Moon.

This is because they dispose either  both Lights in the New Moon or the one which is above the horizon in the Full Moon. Now, the generation and the corruption of every thing depends firstly and mostly on the Light, as often is told.  Therefore Lights produce in the sublunar region effects in agreement with the way they are disposed and impressed, in their union, because of the familiarity with other stars, so they make pregnant of these qualities the elemental region. From this the criterion of the alteration in weather, because Ptolemy talks about it in  agreement with this statement.

Secundum sciendum. You should know, secondly, that the effects which are in proximate potency, start to spring and differentiate from causes when they receive a new impulse, even if light or swift. We have experience of this in every moment. It generally happens in fact that a man’s death seems to derive from a cause without any importance, like food or air in the night or cold. These things are not destructive, being of little importance, so they should not been considered as the main causes of the man’s death, but on the contrary, the intrinsic disposition, which, added to the whatever little cause, nevertheless produces a  remarkable effect. And this happens very often.

Tertio. Disposition and quality of the predominating planet is effective when that planet beholds the angles of the geniture with whatever familiarity. How many and which are these familiarities and which way we should consider and according which computation and distances from angles, I wrote elsewhere. From all this derives:

Primo. The foundation of the proposed matter: since the fetus in proximate potency  manifests himself  outside his cause, even a small disposition coming from the planet which is predominating in that moment is sufficient to part the fetus from his cause.

Secundo. Neither degrees or angles should be considered, but some familiarity of the predominating planet  in the synod of Lights in respect with some angle in the geniture. We should understand Ptolemy in this way.

Tertio. Benefic and malefic dispositions of Lights in the synod preceding birth influence the fetus very much.”

Let’s give an example of the method taking as our guinea pig the most famous man of the moment, President Barack Obama.

Now let’s cast the chart for preceding syzygy:

It’s a full Moon so we shall take into consideration the Light above the horizon, i.e. the Sun.

We will consider which planet has most rights on the degree of the Sun.

Domicile Exaltation Triplicity Terms
4 Leo Saturn Saturn

So clearly Saturn at 25 Capricorn is the planet which we should consider in our birth rectification and arrange in some aspect with MC or ASC.

But the familiarities we should consider is “in mundo.”

Gerolamo Vitali writes the same  under the headword   Amnimodar in his Lexicon Mathematicum Astronomicum Geometricum – 1668

So considering that  Placidus would have considered even quintile, sesquiquadrate and biquintile we have:

conjunction 0 hours
sextile 4 hours
quintile 4.80 hours
square 6 hours
trine 8 hours
sesquiquadrate 9 hours
biquintile 9.60 hours
opposition 12 hours

I should consider Saturn hour distance, which is 4.48 from MC, not far from 4.80 hours of quintile.

In fact:


Considering that Honolulu is not in the equator, Saturn day temporal hours are less than 15, but exactly 13.5466, we should do the following proportion:

0.32: 15= x:13.5466

x= 0.29 ——> 17 minutes.

So we should move the birth time at 19:07, with an ASC. at 13 Aquarius.

In this case Saturn hour distance  is exactly 4.80, so it’s exactly in a familiarity with MC.


Text from Coelestis Philosophia is taken from Giuseppe Bezza, Arcana Mundi: Antologia Del Pensiero Astrologico Antico (Milano: Biblioteca Universale Rizzoli, 1995).

Placidus method is taught by the same Giuseppe Bezza, charts, calculations and mistakes 🙂 by Margherita Fiorello


7 thoughts on “Which is the true moment of birth: Placidus and animodar

  1. Hi, Marguerita

    I was in doubt about the method of bezza: it look very complicated and I wasn´t sure if it was too artificial.

    but, using a totally different method, that I just have invented, it seems that Obama´s ASC is really closer to the 10-14 aquarius range.

    so, congratulations 🙂

  2. Well, I’d like to specify a little, because as they say Give to Cesar the things that are Cesar’s, and give to God the things that are God’s, it’s not exactly my method, here I just cast a random chart as example. Isaritmia or “gate of passage” is Bezza method, based on his traditional teachings. Placidus method is from Placidus 🙂
    Anyway both of them are taught by Giuseppe Bezza inside CieloeTerra, both methods in practice come from his traditional course.

    Told this, I’m happy you enjoyed the example. And yes, I’m a lover of longitudes too 🙂
    It seems to remember you write in Skyscript forum you use aspects to rectify a chart? In this case even if you use plain longitudes there is an aspect between Saturn and MC. I noticed while writing this post.

    Anyway Obama chart is a quite difficult chart, in a few minutes it change its nature from day to night chart….

    Are you going to explain your method? In your blog? Elsewhere?

  3. Well, I don´t exactly use “aspects”, but I have noticed that, the animodar really creates a link between the SAN and the angles, but this links can be of different kind.

    My “method” is pretty preliminar. So I probably will test it for several years before I am sure of it. And probably will not publish it, as I have had things stolen from me in the past (and are the same people who will trash you behind your back), so I can discuss the matter with you in private, but as I said, is just preliminary.


  4. Don’t worry, I don’t want to put you in difficulty with your experiment.
    I mentioned just because you mentioned in skyscript forum.

    Happy to have read you in my blog, in every case.

  5. Hello Marguerita,

    I find your Obama “rectification” interesting. Thanks for making it easy to follow.

    My problem is that there is a birth certificate for Barack, which states clearly that 19:24 was the time. For 19:07 to be correct, implies that at least one eye-witness who was there at the time has missed the mark by a whopping 17 mins. Not impossible, but surely highly unlikely.

    Now, here is the rub. If we have a timed birth certificate and yet postulate that the birth time is actually considerably different, then that implies that ALL births, including those with birth certificates, MUST be rectified. Comments?

    Secondly, now that you have “arrived” at the 19:07 time, what methods were used to confirm/verify/validate this assumption?



  6. @ James Alexander:

    I should agree with both your points, mine was just an exercise to show the method.
    To be really “true” that birth time should be confirmed by events, ie by directions.
    A rectification with a theoretical method based on the idea of an ordered cosmos should be true, but do we live in the same cosmos Ancients live?
    An idea is true just until when everybody recognize as true….

    About the question of Obama birth certificate, I’m not between the supporters of the fake certificate, and in Italy generally they are attentive to the clock in hospital rooms, because birthtime implies legal rights.
    Just I’m not happy with the setting Sun, but Moon has the doriphory and maybe it could be enough,


  7. Dear Margherita

    dear i am repeating it again but thank u once again to introduce to us the method of placidius beside Ptolemy as ppl like me who are foreigner its so imp to see these ideas from u ppl who have access to the original works

    Best Regards

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