Relocating solar returns?

Being an Italian it’s almost impossible now and then avoiding  supporters of relocated solar returns and travel solar returns: however every cloud has a silver lining so a recent thread on an Italian list  gives me the opportunity to write some short notes about the matter.

Modern astrologers generally relocate the solar return for the place where the native currently lives or they arrange it in advance in order to improve native life. But what about traditional astrology?

For what I know there is no ancient text where the solar return relocation is mentioned, so there is no reason for traditional astrologers to cast the chart elsewhere than the birth place. So for example I should disagree with Ben Dykes who in his article about Michael Jackson (( Ben Dykes, Using Medieval Astrology: Michael Jackson’s Nativity, 2004 ))  relocates the solar return for Neverland – still I’m not sure Dykes would do the same now, it’s a very old article.

Morin himself – the father of relocation-  in the Book XXIII  of Astrologia Gallica states:

About this matter, the old astrologers settled absolutely nothing; but in common with them the modern by tradition only always erect the figure of the revolution for the latitude of the natal place. (( Morin de Villefranche, translated by James Herschel Holden, Astrologia Gallica Book 23 (American Federation of Astr, 2000). ))

Moreover we should not forget that solar returns should not be considered per se but they are included in the wider context of the  system known as “division of times”  (( Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos, IV, 10)) where directions and profections are obviously linked to the natal place because they are symbolic movements  of the sky.

In this context there is no meaning in relocating one chart and maintaining the rest basing it on birth place. It’s very  difficult to change our fate (or if you prefer our birth chart), often the more we try to avoid it the faster we meet.

Written by Margherita Fiorello, CIDA certified member, for heaven astrolabe blog @ year 2011. If you want to be notified the next time I write something, subscribe to my RSS feed.



8 thoughts on “Relocating solar returns?

  1. Hello Margherita

    About Ben Dykes take on relocation, in his recent translation of Abu Mashar (persian nativities 3) on solar revolutions he (Dykes) seems to be quite definite about not relocating on the same grounds as you… on the other hand i believe the innovation comes from one of Ibn Ezra`s works it`s mentioned in the same book but i coulnd`t tell for sure.


  2. Hi Margherita,
    as I am teaching my students forecasting-techniques right now, I dug up my seminar notes from John Frawley seminar back in 2006. This is the essence of his view on relocation:
    – anything of significance will be in the return for the birth-place;
    – relocated returns only may give more detail, but don’t change the potential of the natal chart;
    – hence, don’t bother with relocated charts (except maybe for long-term immigrant…) !


  3. @ margherita:

    I`ll look for it…couldn`t find it… in the time being and just in case i don`t… be sure Ben Dykes endorses this approach in his mp3 lecture on solar revolutions (i`m being afraid i sort of mixed it all in my mind!) the comment on Ibn Ezra being from one of the attendants to the recorded lecture…precisely when Dykes says relocating wasn`t anywhere in the protocol without any further explanations… again i don`t know if that reference is exact yet it makes a lot of sense that if we are directing the local sphere as a groundbase for prediction relocating, if at all effective, must be of a very maginal relevance.

    In my limited experience i`ve found that it doesn`t change anything, like people dying in a travel with a revolutionary bad configuration to the 9th for their natal place and the case subject having had his last solar return somewhere else not even close to that natal location.

  4. hello ,im from Brazil ,i think this a practice from A.Volguine ,mentioned on his book about it, im not using it as well , is not traditional

  5. “La pruova del testo è la torta.” The fact is, relocating solar returns is important, and anyone who tests the theory will quickly see the proof. This is especially true if one uses the sidereal zodiac (precession-free) with Campanus houses (cf. Fagan).

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